Talk:Ke Nelaid, Roshaun

From ErrantryWiki

Dairine and Roshaun . . . THAT could be interesting. I hope it's still possible, though it puts Roshaun in an odd position, politically . . .--MTree

I think that Roshaun and Dairine should go for it, though it would be kind of hard after what happened in Wizards at War.--Gigo dudette

Hard? Not for those two! -- Emiwai 23:20, 12 Jun 2006 (EDT)

You guys have read WAW, right?!! In WAW, Roshaun DIES. I dont think they can bring the dead to life. I mean if they could, wouldnt they have brought Nita's mother or ponch back to life?-- softbllchick59

He may be dead, but Dairine's clearly not convinced of it. And Ponch isn't dead. He's just not mortal any more. --Peter Murray 05:53, 10 Sep 2006 (EDT)

good point. I forgot that Ponch became immortal. But that still doesnt defend why they wouldnt bring back Nita's mom if they could..? --softbllchick59

Okie hokie. This is somewhat later than the afternoon, as I had more homework than I was expecting, but here I am.

Now. Why wouldn't they bring Betty Callahan back from the dead?

The simplest way would be to do what Rhiow considered in Book of Night: patch this timeline with a piece of time from another timeline where Betty Callahan didn't die. Unfortunately, it wouldn't work, from reasons made clear in the text. From context, I'm guessing Mrs. Callahan died around the December holidays. Holiday takes place over Spring Break and WAW in the week immediately following -- so clearly it's three or four months since Betty died. Nita has accepted the fact that Mrs. Callahan has died and has imprinted the fact onto her brain. As she (or Kit, actually, I think it was) observed in Abroad, once a memory has imprinted itself too strongly on the human brain, patching time doesn't work because people won't accept it. If five minutes were jeopardizing the patch in Abroad, clearly, three months later, it's no good.

So that rules out something relatively simple like patching time. Which means we're pretty much down to raising the dead a la "The Monkey's Paw" or similar. Baldly stated, no one likes a necromancer. In most of the fantasy I've read, necromancers are the darkest of the dark, the evilest of the evil. (Consider the case of Lord Voldemort and his Inferi in Harry Potter; consider also the Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode "Forever"). I can't state categorically that no wizard who serves the Light would willingly turn to necromancy, because Nita has already shown what she will do when she is desperate, but I think it might have enough taint and taboo around it that it would be an absolute last resort.

Also, I think raising the dead would take too much power -- it would be one of those things that a wizard might do and find themselves never a wizard again. Carl has already spelled out to Nita the consequences of a wizard losing their magic: not only would she forget the magic had existed, she would lose touch with everyone she had met through wizardry. As pointed out earlier, Nita knows that her mother is dead and has known for three months. How, then, do you explain someone coming back to life after you've known they were dead for three months -- without involving magic? You can't. I suspect Nita would simply forget her mother as she would Kit and Tom and Carl: how terrible, to forget the mother you sacrificed your power to raise.

But, but, you say, but what about creating a timeslide to just before Betty Callahan dies and patching the time then? What about creating a timeslide to just before she was diagnosed and finding a universe where she never had cancer in the first place? Leaving aside the question of what supervisory wizard in their right mind would authorize that kind of timeslide?, I'll tell you why: because it contravenes the Oath. Raising the dead violates the Oath in eleventy bajillion ways. Line by line:

" . . . I will employ the Art . . . in Life's service alone . . ."

How is using the Art to directly interfere with the natural order of Life using the Art "in Life's service alone"?

"I will guard growth and ease pain."

Arguably, Betty Callahan's pain has been eased. She is part of Timeheart and growing in ways it is beyond our ken to understand.

"I will not change any creature unless its growth and life . . . are threatened or threaten another."

Mrs. Callahan is at peace in Timeheart and far beyond threat.

"I will ever put aside . . . death for life, when it is right to do so . . ." [emphasis mine]

Point, set, and match. It's just not right.

Wow. This ended up being a little more comprehensive than I intended. Maybe I should change my wikiname to "Overthinky Girl". Well, maybe now that I've got the gears oiled I can actually finish my Comp essay. (janeway216 12:39, 14 Sep 2006 (EDT))

softbllchick59, I think you're overlooking something. Nita and Dairine know their mother is dead. According to one timeline, she was diagnosed in September, and died around Christmas time. They could do nothing but watch as she slowly died over three months. They have no doubt that she is dead.

Dairine, however, does not believe that Roshaun is dead. He was there, then he wasn't there. She believes that he went somewhere. She believes that she didn't find him in Timeheart for the simple reason that he isn't dead. She doesn't want to bring him back from the dead (so the question of how she could isn't relevant), she wants to find out where he is and bring him back to her. That is likely to be very difficult, but it's not impossible. --Peter Murray 15:00, 15 Sep 2006 (EDT)

Alright...maybe I was wrong. yeah, I understand about Betty Callhan. ~softbllchick59

I don't think Roshaun is dead. Honestly, they would have said he was dead. So I think in the next book she'll find him.-akki88

exactly! why would they just not tell us he's dead? if he isn't in timeheart, he must be SOMEWHERE!!!!!!! ---polar_bear15

These liminal states ("between human life and death") mentioned in Ko Hsuan's entry may prove relevant to what's going on with Roshaun. —Nathan 22:41, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] he can't be dead

no way that Roshaun is dead...i mean come on....him and Dairine are practically a pair now...they were just starting to get along with each other-sayuri

If he is/was ACTUALLY dead wouldn't Dairine have FOUND him in Timeheart? Either The Time Heart of HER home or HIS home? The Dairine/Roshaun thing and the question "Is he dead or not?" is what really has me pumped for Wizards on Mars.

---

I completely concur! There is NO WAY that he's dead. No, and I'll swear to his being alive, just... caught somewhere in time-space. For one thing there's that not-so-age-old age-old Time Heart argument. For another... well... um... okay, I got nothin' logical... but I think that Dari would know. The whole connection thing and all that crud. Yeah, yeah, a lot of people will probably jump at me wit hthe whole 'There is NO PROOF in that. NONE. AT ALL!' And... well... there isn't, but I honestly don't believe he is dead... even if my fanfics may suggest otherwise... - Frosty